Tuesday, July 27, 2010

"The ignorance, neglect, or contempt of the rights of man are the sole cause of public calamities..."The Declaration of the Rights of Man" 1789.

While I commend the rabbis who signed the Statement for doing so, the more I read the statement, the more I have problems with it.

Bear in mind that my perspective is as a parent of a child who is gay.

Allow me to break it down.......

We, the undersigned Orthodox rabbis, rashei yeshiva, ramim, Jewish educators and communal leaders affirm the following principles with regard to the place of Jews with a homosexual orientation in our community:

1. All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect (kevod haberiyot). Every Jew is obligated to fulfill the entire range of mitzvot between person and person in relation to persons who are homosexual or have feelings of same sex attraction. Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism.

This is a fine preamble along the lines of the Declaration of Independence and The Declaration of the Rights of Man, both composed in the late 1700s. It is always good to begin a statement in broad, glowing terms.

2. The question of whether sexual orientation is primarily genetic, or rather environmentally generated, is irrelevant to our obligation to treat human beings with same-sex attractions and orientations with dignity and respect.

I question why this had to be inserted at all, but it becomes more clear a few points later on.

3. Halakhah sees heterosexual marriage as the ideal model and sole legitimate outlet for human sexual expression. The sensitivity and understanding we properly express for human beings with other sexual orientations does not diminish our commitment to that principle.

With this point, the rabbis are making it clear exactly where they stand.

4. Halakhic Judaism views all male and female same-sex sexual interactions as prohibited. The question of whether sexual orientation is primarily genetic, or rather environmentally generated, is irrelevant to this prohibition. While halakha categorizes various homosexual acts with different degrees of severity and opprobrium, including toeivah, this does not in any way imply that lesser acts are permitted. But it is critical to emphasize that halakha only prohibits homosexual acts; it does not prohibit orientation or feelings of same-sex attraction, and nothing in the Torah devalues the human beings who struggle with them. (We do not here address the issue of hirhurei aveirah, a halakhic category that goes beyond mere feelings and applies to all forms of sexuality and requires precise halakhic definition.)

Once again the question of whether or not sexual orientation is genetic is raised again.

Back in January, NoPeanuts made the following comment:


The thing that these Rosh Yeshivahs, particularly Twersky keep talking about is that the issues surrounding homosexuality, particularly its origins and transitionality are an ongoing debate in the medical community, very much up in the air.

I have never heard this from a certified healthcare professional.

5. Whatever the origin or cause of homosexual orientation, many individuals believe that for most people this orientation cannot be changed. Others believe that for most people it is a matter of free will. Similarly, while some mental health professionals and rabbis in the community strongly believe in the efficacy of “change therapies”, most of the mental health community, many rabbis, and most people with a homosexual orientation feel that some of these therapies are either ineffective or potentially damaging psychologically for many patients.

We affirm the religious right of those with a homosexual orientation to reject
therapeutic approaches they reasonably see as useless or dangerous.

Again, the issue is raised. But this time there is a discussion of the "efficacy" of "change therapies". In spite of the affirmation that homosexuals have a "right" to reject "therapeutic approaches they reasonably see as useless or dangerous". This is not an unequivocal statement. This affirmation does not recognize the declaration made by the American Psychiatric Association that reparative therapy does not work.

There seems to be "a reasonable doubt" casting a shadow over this statement. There is a disproportionate amount of discussion around genetic causes and choice.

6. Jews with a homosexual orientation who live in the Orthodox community confront serious emotional, communal and psychological challenges that cause them and their families great pain and suffering. For example, homosexual orientation may greatly increase the risk of suicide among teenagers in our community. Rabbis and communities need to be sensitive and empathetic to that reality. Rabbis and mental health professionals must provide responsible and ethical assistance to congregants and clients dealing with those human challenges.

Thank you for that.

7. Jews struggling to live their lives in accordance with halakhic values need and deserve our support. Accordingly, we believe that the decision as to whether to be open about one's sexual orientation should be left to such individuals, who should consider their own needs and those of the community. We are opposed on ethical and moral grounds to both the “outing” of individuals who want to remain private and to coercing those who desire to be open about their orientation to keep it hidden.

Again, thank you for this point.

8. Accordingly, Jews with homosexual orientations or same sex-attractions should be welcomed as full members of the synagogue and school community. As appropriate with regard to gender and lineage, they should participate and count ritually, be eligible for ritual synagogue honors, and generally be treated in the same fashion and under the same halakhic and hashkafic framework as any other member of the synagogue they join. Conversely, they must accept and fulfill all the responsibilities of such membership, including those generated by communal norms or broad Jewish principles that go beyond formal halakhah.

We do not here address what synagogues should do about accepting members
who are openly practicing homosexuals and/or living with a same-sex partner.
Each synagogue together with its rabbi must establish its own standard with
regard to membership for open violators of halakha.
Those standards should be applied fairly and objectively.

I can live with this point.

9. Halakha articulates very exacting criteria and standards of eligibility for particular religious offices, such as officially appointed cantor during the year or baal tefillah on the High Holidays. Among the most important of those criteria is that the entire congregation must be fully comfortable with having that person serve as its representative. This legitimately prevents even the most admirable individuals, who are otherwise perfectly fit halakhically, from serving in those roles. It is the responsibility of the lay and rabbinic leadership in each individual community to determine eligibility for those offices in line with those principles, the importance of maintaining communal harmony, and the unique context of its community culture.

It goes without saying that any baal tefillah should live up to a high standard. However, there is a political reality to every organization and this usually manifests itself in that any minority, including a sexual minority, will more often than not, not find a place there.

10. Jews with a homosexual orientation or same sex attraction, even if they engage in same sex interactions, should be encouraged to fulfill mitzvot to the best of their ability. All Jews are challenged to fulfill mitzvot to the best of their ability, and the attitude of “all or nothing” was not the traditional approach adopted by the majority of halakhic thinkers and poskim throughout the ages.

The "all or nothing" attitude does not stem from the homosexual but it comes as a result of his or her rejection from the Orthodox Jewish community.

11. Halakhic Judaism cannot give its blessing and imprimatur to Jewish religious
same-sex commitment ceremonies and weddings, and halakhic values proscribe individuals and communities from encouraging practices that grant religious legitimacy to gay marriage and couplehood. But communities should display sensitivity, acceptance and full embrace of the adopted or biological children of homosexually active Jews in the synagogue and school setting, and we encourage parents and family of homosexually partnered Jews to make every effort to maintain harmonious family relations and connections.

This sounds like the statement is advocating celibacy and a life without intimacy.

12. Jews who have an exclusively homosexual orientation should, under most circumstances, not be encouraged to marry someone of the other gender, as
this can lead to great tragedy, unrequited love, shame, dishonesty and ruined
lives. They should be directed to contribute to Jewish and general society in
other meaningful ways. Any such person who is planning to marry someone of
the opposite gender is halakhically and ethically required to fully inform their
potential spouse of their sexual orientation.

This is the one case where a person should be "outed" to protect the other party.

To sum up, in spite of their best efforts, this statement is lacking.

At first glance, I liked the statement and I was glad it was written, but after a second reading, I had issues with it. It loses its lustre and it does not go far enough. Had it been written as soon as possible after the symposium and after the nasty remarks by the Rabbeim, then it would have had more of a meaning and more of an impact.

By the third reading it seems apologetic and uncertain.

It is clear that they have not come to terms with the fact that homosexuality is not a choice.

More to come....

Be well.

Saul David







Monday, July 26, 2010

Dairy Equipment and the Statement of Principles on the Place of Jews with a Homosexual Orientation in Our Community

While I commend those rabbis who have finally taken a stand by signing this Statement of Principles, the Statement reminds me of the kashruth label that has been added to packages over the last several years with the symbol "DE", signifying dairy equipment. Does this label on the package mean that the product is dairy? Or is it pareve? Can I eat it with meat? How long must I wait?

It leaves more questions unanswered and it doesn't really address the issue fully, completely and unequivocally.

It's not quite pareve, but neither is it milchig or fleishig.

In spite of the issue, it should be relatively easy for the rabbis to tackle. According to my son and his friends at JQYouth, all they want is to be included and recognized as members of Clal Yisroel, without bias or discrimination.

This should have been an easy issue to address, yet it took six months to publish and it involved hundreds of emails to reach a consensus.

I wouldn't be proud of such a feat. It took the rashei yeshiva of YU less than 24 hours to make a statement condemning the symposium and it took Rabbi Twerski less than a week to appear on YouTube after the symposium. But it took 6 months for these rabbis to respond!

What we got was a label that expressed its kashruth, but it remains muddy and unclear.

Too little and too late.

It is quite clear how Rabbi Twerski holds.

I'm really not so sure about the signatories.

Be well and keep on supporting your children. We're the only ones they can truly trust.

Saul David

Sunday, July 25, 2010

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Sir Isaac Newton

It has been exactly six months since four brave young men spoke at Yeshiva University "On Being Gay in the Modern Orthodox World." Within a day after that event the Rashei Yeshiva of YU came out (no pun intended) and vilified the school and the speakers for holding this symposium. A few days later, Rabbi Twersky spoke in an even more disturbing manner about the symposium.

Six months later, apparently after months and months of discussion and and hundreds of pages of shared emails, a group of rabbis have issued a statement relating to the issue of homosexuality in the Orthodox world.

What follows is their statement.

I reserve judgment and comments on this for a later date.

Be well.

SD

Thursday, July 22, 2010

For the last six months a number of Orthodox rabbis and educators have been preparing a statement of principles on the place of our brothers and sisters in our community who have a homosexual orientation.

The original draft was prepared by Rabbi Nathaniel Helfgot. It was then commented upon by and revised based on the input from dozens of talmidei chachamim, educators, communal rabbis, mental health professionals and a number of individuals in our community who are homosexual in orientation.

Significant revisions were made based upon the input of Rabbi Aryeh Klapper and Rabbi Yitzchak Blau who were intimately involved in the process of editing and improving the document during the last three months.

The statement below is a consensus document arrived at after hundreds of hours of discussion,debate and editing. At the bottom, is the initial cohort of signators.

If you are an Orthodox rabbi, educator, or mental health professional and would like to add your signature to the current list, please send a short e-mail to:
statementnya@hotmail.com with your name, address, cell phone number, and professional affiliation.




Statement of Principles on the Place of Jews with a
Homosexual Orientation in Our Community

We, the undersigned Orthodox rabbis, rashei yeshiva, ramim, Jewish educators and communal leaders affirm the following principles with regard to the place of Jews with a homosexual orientation in our community:

1. All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect (kevod haberiyot). Every Jew is obligated to fulfill the entire range of mitzvot between person and person in relation to persons who are homosexual or have feelings of same sex attraction. Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism.

2. The question of whether sexual orientation is primarily genetic, or rather environmentally generated, is irrelevant to our obligation to treat human beings with same-sex attractions and orientations with dignity and respect.

3. Halakhah sees heterosexual marriage as the ideal model and sole legitimate outlet for human sexual expression. The sensitivity and understanding we properly express for human beings with other sexual orientations does not diminish our commitment to that principle.

4. Halakhic Judaism views all male and female same-sex sexual interactions as prohibited. The question of whether sexual orientation is primarily genetic, or rather environmentally generated, is irrelevant to this prohibition. While halakha categorizes various homosexual acts with different degrees of severity and opprobrium, including toeivah, this does not in any way imply that lesser acts are permitted. But it is critical to emphasize that halakha only prohibits homosexual acts; it does not prohibit orientation or feelings of same-sex attraction, and nothing in the Torah devalues the human beings who struggle with them. (We do not here address the issue of hirhurei aveirah, a halakhic category that goes beyond mere feelings and applies to all forms of sexuality and requires precise halakhic definition.)

5. Whatever the origin or cause of homosexual orientation, many individuals believe that for most people this orientation cannot be changed. Others believe that for most people it is a matter of free will. Similarly, while some mental health professionals and rabbis in the community strongly believe in the efficacy of “change therapies”, most of the mental health community, many rabbis, and most people with a homosexual orientation feel that some of these therapies are either ineffective or potentially damaging psychologically for many patients.

We affirm the religious right of those with a homosexual orientation to reject
therapeutic approaches they reasonably see as useless or dangerous.

6. Jews with a homosexual orientation who live in the Orthodox community confront serious emotional, communal and psychological challenges that cause them and their families great pain and suffering. For example, homosexual orientation may greatly increase the risk of suicide among teenagers in our community. Rabbis and communities need to be sensitive and empathetic to that reality. Rabbis and mental health professionals must provide responsible and ethical assistance to congregants and clients dealing with those human challenges.

7. Jews struggling to live their lives in accordance with halakhic values need and deserve our support. Accordingly, we believe that the decision as to whether to be open about one's sexual orientation should be left to such individuals, who should consider their own needs and those of the community. We are opposed on ethical and moral grounds to both the “outing” of individuals who want to remain private and to coercing those who desire to be open about their orientation to keep it hidden.

8. Accordingly, Jews with homosexual orientations or same sex-attractions should be welcomed as full members of the synagogue and school community. As appropriate with regard to gender and lineage, they should participate and count ritually, be eligible for ritual synagogue honors, and generally be treated in the same fashion and under the same halakhic and hashkafic framework as any other member of the synagogue they join. Conversely, they must accept and fulfill all the responsibilities of such membership, including those generated by communal norms or broad Jewish principles that go beyond formal halakhah.

We do not here address what synagogues should do about accepting members
who are openly practicing homosexuals and/or living with a same-sex partner.
Each synagogue together with its rabbi must establish its own standard with
regard to membership for open violators of halakha.
Those standards should be applied fairly and objectively.


9. Halakha articulates very exacting criteria and standards of eligibility for particular religious offices, such as officially appointed cantor during the year or baal tefillah on the High Holidays. Among the most important of those criteria is that the entire congregation must be fully comfortable with having that person serve as its representative. This legitimately prevents even the most admirable individuals, who are otherwise perfectly fit halakhically, from serving in those roles. It is the responsibility of the lay and rabbinic leadership in each individual community to determine eligibility for those offices in line with those principles, the importance of maintaining communal harmony, and the unique context of its community culture.

10. Jews with a homosexual orientation or same sex attraction, even if they engage in same sex interactions, should be encouraged to fulfill mitzvot to the best of their ability. All Jews are challenged to fulfill mitzvot to the best of their ability, and the attitude of “all or nothing” was not the traditional approach adopted by the majority of halakhic thinkers and poskim throughout the ages.

11. Halakhic Judaism cannot give its blessing and imprimatur to Jewish religious
same-sex commitment ceremonies and weddings, and halakhic values proscribe individuals and communities from encouraging practices that grant religious legitimacy to gay marriage and couplehood. But communities should display sensitivity, acceptance and full embrace of the adopted or biological children of homosexually active Jews in the synagogue and school setting, and we encourage parents and family of homosexually partnered Jews to make every effort to maintain harmonious family relations and connections.

12. Jews who have an exclusively homosexual orientation should, under most circumstances, not be encouraged to marry someone of the other gender, as
this can lead to great tragedy, unrequited love, shame, dishonesty and ruined
lives. They should be directed to contribute to Jewish and general society in
other meaningful ways. Any such person who is planning to marry someone of
the opposite gender is halakhically and ethically required to fully inform their
potential spouse of their sexual orientation.


We hope and pray that by sharing these thoughts we will help the Orthodox
community to fully live out its commitment to the principles and values of
Torah and Halakha as practiced and cherished by the children of Abraham, who
our sages teach us are recognized by the qualities of being rahamanim
(merciful), bayshanim (modest), and gomelei hasadim
engaging in acts of loving-kindness).



(as of 7/25/10)
Rabbi Yosef Adler
Rabbi Joshua Amaru
Rabbi Elisha Anscelovits
Rabbi Hayyim Angel
Rabbi Marc Angel
Rabbi Maurice Appelbaum
Mrs. Nechama Goldman Barash
Rabbi Avi Baumol
Rabbi Benjamin Berger
Rabbi Dr. Shalom Berger
Rabbi Dr. Joshua Berman
Rabbi Todd Berman
Rabbi Yonah Berman
Dr. David Bernstein
Rabbi David Bigman
Rabbi Yitzchak Blau
Rabbi Nasanayl Braun
Dr. Erica Brown
Rabbi Yuval Cherlow
Dr. Aubie Diamond
Ms. Yael Diamond
Rabbi Mark Dratch
Rabbi Ira Ebbin
Rabbi Rafi Eis
Mrs. Atara Eis
Mrts. Elan Sober Elzufon
Rabbi Yitzhak Etshalom
Rabbi Dr. Shaul (Seth) Farber
Ms. Rachel Feingold
Rabbi Yoel Finkelman
Rabbi Jeffrey Fox
Rabbi Aaron Frank
Rabbi Aharon Frazier
Rabbi Avidan Freedman
Rabbi Shmuel Goldin
Rabbi Mark Gottlieb
Rabbi Barry Gelman
Rabbi Uri Goldstein
Rabbi Benjamin Greenberg
Rabbi Zvi Grumet
Rabbi Alan Haber
Dr. Aviad Hacohen
Rabbi Tully Harcsztark
Rabbi Nathaniel Helfgot
Rabbi Josh Hess
Dr. Daniel Kahn
Rabbi Yosef Kanefsky
Rabbi Jay Kellman
Rabbi Aryeh Klapper
Mrs. Judy Klitsner
Rabbi Shmuel Klitsner
Rabbi Jeff Kobrin
Dr. Aaron Koller
Rabbi Barry Kornblau
Dr. Meesh Hammer Kossoy
Rabbi Binny Krauss
Mrs. Esther Krauss
Rabbi Dr. Benny Lau
Rabbi Zvi Leshem
Rabbi Daniel Levitt
Rabbi Norman Linzer
Rabbi Dr. Martin Lockshin
Rabbi Dr. Haskel Lookstein
Rabbi Asher Lopatin
Rabbi Chaim Marder
Rabbi Joshua Maroof
Rabbi Dr. Adam Mintz
Rabbi Jonathan Morgenstern
Rabbi Dr. Yaacov Nagen (Genack)
Mrs. C.B. Neugroschl
Rabbi Yossi Pollak
Dr. Caroline Pyser
Rabbi Daniel Reifman
Rabbi Avi Robinson
Rabbi Chaim Sacknovitz
Rabbi Noam Shapiro
Rabbi Yehuda Seif
Rabbi Murray Schaum
Rabbi Hanan Schlesinger
Rabbi Adam Schier
Ms. Lisa Schlaff
Rabbi Yehuda Septimus
Rabbi Yair Silverman
Rabbi Jeremy Stavitsky
Rabbi Adam Starr
Rabbi Chaim Strauchler
Rabbi Yehuda Sussman
Rabbi Joel Tessler
Rabbi Mordechai Torczyner
Rabbi Jacob Traub
Rabbi Zach Truboff
Mrs. Dara Unterberg
Rabbi Michael Unterberg
Rabbi Dr. Avie Walfish
Dr. Dina Weiner
Rabbi Ezra Weiner
Ms. Sara Weinerman
Rabbi David Wolkenfeld
Rabbi Elie Weinstock
Rabbi Shmuly Yanklowitz
Rabbi Alan Yuter
Rabbi Josh Yuter
Dr. Yael Ziegler
Rabbi Dr. Stuart Zweiter

Sunday, June 6, 2010

"Your son loves you enough to have shared with you who he is."

It's been quite a while since I have written. In my last post from March, I wrote about attending a book reading by K. David Brody as he launched his book "Mourning and Celebration".

A little background....David Brody contacted me after I had written to his rabbi in Montreal. His Rabbi, Adam Scheier, was one of the rabbis who responded to my email. He passed this blog onto the author, who in turn contacted me.

Here is his letter to me. I hope he doesn't mind that I am publishing it, but it is so warm and from the heart, that I feel compelled to share it with you.

Enjoy the book.

All the best.

Saul David


Dear Saul David:


First, I want to say that my heart goes out to you and parents in your situation. I’ll just say the words that come straight into my mind: what a “chillul Hashem” that, because of a variant in human nature, parents should feel ashamed of the life they have brought into this world. The circumstances are so much akin to anti-Semitism – unreasonable hate for what we are, not for what we do – and the “rationalization” is that which caused the Holocaust. After all, homosexuals were in the camps with the Jews.


I am now a senior citizen (hate that phrase – I feel only 14), but I am so glad that I resisted the temptation to “come out” to my parents when I was a teenager. At that time, with their best intentions in mind, I would probably have been subjected to shock therapy, which would have ruined my life.


Today, I am not “proud” to be gay, I just am. In my teenage years, I vowed that if I could ever help other young people to avoid the anguish I suffered, merely because I was gay, I would do so. My book is part of that effort. From a young man terrified of discovery, I am now telling total strangers that I am a gay Orthodox Jew, and earning respect for it. Unbelievable! I also lead a very fulfilling life.


I want to share my “credentials” with you: in my childhood, my father, z”l, was a shochet, a part-time chazan and the principal of an after-school Jewish academy in London, UK. I now live in Montreal, and my rabbi, Rabbi Adam Scheier of Shaar Hashomayim, a man wise beyond his years, passed me your blog, which I read entirely on Friday afternoon. I had planned to write to you today, regardless of your e-mail to me.


I don’t know where you are located, but if you are also in Montreal, on the evening of Tuesday, February 23, I plan to give a talk at Shaar Hashomayim on Growing Up Orthodox and Gay, part of their Tuesday evening lecture series. If you can attend, I would like very much to meet you. You can even still call yourself “Saul David”!


My thoughts and prayers are with you. Please do not be disappointed in your son. He loves you enough to have shared with you who he is. It’s a different world today. Had I been born ten or twenty years later, for sure I would have even had children of my own. And we are so lucky to be living in Canada.


I hope your son is receiving the support he needs from you, and that you will share my book with him.


My website address is
www.mourningandcelebration.com


Kol tuv,


David

Be well.


Saul David

Tuesday, March 2, 2010

"We have met the enemy......and he is us" - Walt Kelly



"Remember...after you left Egypt - how, undeterred by fear of God, he surprised you on the march, when you were famished and weary, and cut down all the stragglers in your rear."

A few weeks after the YU symposium I tried an experiment. I sent emails to about 20 rabbis across North America. Those who I heard were somewhat Modern Orthodox or who may have had a specific interest in gay issues. In the title bar I wrote "On being gay in the modern Orthodox world - this may be of interest to you and your congregants."

I received a response from three rabbis. Two of them were from Montreal and the other was from St. Louis. The rest were silent.

The rabbi from St. Louis asked me if I was receiving responses as a result of the symposium and how my son was faring. (He doesn't know me or my son.) One rabbi from Montreal asked me if I am ever in that city and if so, he would like to meet me and discuss the issue of being gay in the modern Orthodox world. The other rabbi passed my name onto a gentleman who recently wrote a book about growing up gay in an Orthodox home and invited me to his shul to hear the man speak.

I subsequently received a very nice email from the author telling me that he read the blog and that I "should not judge my son too harshly." He also invited me to hear him speak at his book launch.

Isn't it interesting that from all the emails I sent out, to Los Angeles, New York/New Jersey area, St. Louis, Montreal, Toronto and Boston, I only heard from 3 rabbis of 2 communities. I believe that the communities of Montreal and St. Louis are similar in that they are not heavily divided along religious lines. They share the need to stand together.

I scheduled a business meeting in Montreal to coincide with the book launch. After the evening's event, the Rabbi, the Rebbitizin, the author and I went out for a nice, long cup of coffee. It was a pleasure to meet and talk so openly. I also met with the other rabbi as well. We had a lovely discussion.

What a shame that other rabbis could not be so open, welcoming and so forthcoming.

Maybe there is hope for us after all.

Be well.

Saul David

PS. After I finish reading the book I will tell you the name and author.

Thursday, January 21, 2010

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye" - Miss Piggy


Did you ever hear the joke about..............

One Friday morning a woman meekly knocks on the door to her rabbi's study. In her hand is a bowl of freshly made chopped liver. The rabbi is busy learning, and not wanting to disturb him she places the bowl of chopped liver (which happens to be garnished with crackers) on the rabbi's desk, and stands patiently until the rabbi is ready to speak to her.

Being totally absorbed in his studies, the rabbi gets a whiff of the chopped liver and begins to dip the crackers into the liver. Before long he finishes eating the whole bowl of chopped liver along with the crackers. He finally notices his guest and asks her what she wants.

The woman is barely able to speak to the rabbi. When she musters up the courage she says, "Rabbi, I came to ask you if the chopped liver which I prepared in my kitchen is kosher?"

The rabbi looks at the empty bowl, looks up at the woman, looks at the empty bowl again...and dusting the crumbs off his beard announces "It's kosher!"

Not funny!

I am quite angry, having heard that gay men are being refused as "eidim" because they are deemed to be "not kosher" witnesses. This was mentioned at the YU symposium and my son admitted the same thing to me.

For it seems that the label "kosher" may very well be in the eye of the beholder.

Follow this thread...........

My wife was applying to the local Vaad Hakashruth for a hechsher for her store. To meet the criteria one must get a letter from the rabbi of an Orthodox shul attesting to the fact that the owner of the store is Shomer Shabbos and attends an Orthodox shul. She got the hechsher.

Lately, we have been attending a minyan once a month that is egalitarian. Some women leyn and some daven.

I would doubt if the people in charge of the Vaad Hakashruth would consider this to be a "kosher" minyan, or even an "orthodox" minyan. Furthermore, I wonder what the Orthodox establishment would call the rabbi who has sanctioned and is leading this minyan.

Do you think he would be refused as an "eyd" because of his non-kosher activities?

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

By the way.....this is the same rabbi who disqualified my son as an "eyd".

Be well.

Saul David

Friday, January 8, 2010

"I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" - Howard Beale

Since the symposium, "On Being Gay in the Orthodox World" at Yeshiva University, I have been struggling, to be honest. People have been writing me, asking what my thoughts are, and last week I wrote that I would not step into the fray until the dust settles.

Then I read a letter posted by "a father" whose son came out to him after the symposium. I will copy and paste the letter at the end of this posting.

So here goes........

I am not going to get involved in all the discussions that have been going on as to the halakhic issues, what's right and what's wrong, why do they have to talk about it, why do they have to make this public, abominations, etc. I have been through all that before and I have written about it over the last two years.

But having read the letter from this "father" who is new to this struggle, I have decided to get back to basics, back to what this blog started out as.....simply a forum for parents to discuss what they are going through, how they feel and how to cope and best serve their children. I began this blog as a starting point for all of us to help each other "navigate these uncharted waters".

So back to basics.

When I first read the transcript and saw the video of the symposium, I fell into a deep depression. Watching these young men tell their heart-wrenching story brought back all of the raw feelings I went through two years ago. The day after the symposium, my wife and I went to Florida, but all wounds were re-opened and we spent the best part of the next seven days talking about our son. We did not socialize with anyone. We kept pretty much to ourselves.

It has been hard to shake this feeling.

I received an email this week from a psychiatrist in New York who has counselled gay people. She asked me how I was doing, in light of the symposium, and I relayed a story to her that was told to me by a middle-aged man who we met at a PFLAG meeting. We met this man in our second meeting with PFLAG with everything fresh in our minds. My wife asked him if and when it ever gets easier. He responded to her "each time you tell someone that you are gay, it's like coming out over and over and over again."

So to answer those people who have asked what my reaction is to the YU symposium. This is my reaction. It is as if my son has come out over again. I am sad. I am angry. I am hurt. And I am in pain.

I am sad for my son. Even though he is doing fine, this was not his choice and he should not have to be struggling like these young men.

I am angry at the hypocrisy. After the symposium, my son told me that he too was not allowed to be an "Eyd" at a wedding because he was not deemed to be "kosher".

I am hurt because the people who should understand are just not there.

And I am in pain, just because.

I have chosen not to comment on the specifics of the issue because I think that people like "dovbear" are doing a great job. What more is there to say about the issue.

The fact is that these young men and women were created a certain way and they have chosen to try to continue to live their lives in an Orthodox, Torah-True way. Isn't it ironic that their choice is to choose the most difficult path, to be accepted by those who refuse to accept them.

We are all created in ways that pose challenges to us. We all have problems that were not of our choosing. I have a friend who lost her baby on the delivery table. I have another friend whose baby boy died when he was a month old. I have a freind who lost her child to Tay-Sachs at two years old. I have a friend who son was born with a severe disability. The list goes on and on. We have all been faced with heart-breaking situations which were not our choice.

When my son was at his worst and lowest state, in a terrible depression and suffering from physical ailments as well...we were afraid that he may have had leukemia, I told a friend that I would rather he be gay then lose him to a terrible disease.

So let's get this blog back to basics. It began as a forum for parents whose children are gay. Let's all help each other.

Be well.

Saul David

PS. Here is the letter........


Dear Saul David,

Thank you so much for your blog - our son told us about two weeks ago, at the same time as it became relevant for us. One way I have dealt with the news is by composing the open letter attached below.

A father
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“A conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged by reality.” That well-worn line occurred to me as I reflected on the debate over the Wurzweiler panel on gays and Orthodoxy.
Any honest discussion of this issue must start with a basic truth: being gay is not something that people choose. This is both a scientific fact and an intuitively true statement. As a friend of mine put it, why would a person raised in an Orthodox Jewish community, who desperately wants to remain an Orthodox Jew, choose a sexual orientation that threatens to ostracize him from that community and that risks a life of loneliness and despair? Unfortunately, it is clear from the statements made by the Roshei Yeshiva following the Wurzweiler panel that they do not accept this basic truth. This refusal is evidenced by their use of such phrases as “those who profess homosexuality” and by comparisons of gays to shoplifters who need to control their urge to steal. It would be bad enough if this refusal to see the obvious merely dishonored our obligation to seek truth and justice and disgraced the Torah. The actual harm is far worse than this, though: it causes deep mental – and, in some cases, life-threatening – anguish for untold numbers of Orthodox Jews and drives thousands away from a community whose embrace as human beings and fellow Jews they yearn for.
The same Torah that condemns mishkav zachar tells us “mi’dvar sheker tirchak” – abhor falsehood – and to love our fellow Jew. And when Hillel was asked to summarize the Torah while the heathen was standing on one foot, he chose a variant of the last, not the first, of those statements as our faith’s fundamental principle: “What is hateful to you, do not do unto others.”
Which brings us back to our opening line: “A conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged by reality.” When – not if, because it is inevitable – one of those Roshei Yeshiva learns that a talmid muvhak or a close family member is gay, he will have been mugged by reality. And we will then be able to say that “a tolerant Rosh Yeshiva is an intolerant one who’s been mugged by reality” – we will then have a Rosh Yeshiva who will realize, with pellucid clarity, that sexual orientation is not a choice. He will then understand – and hopefully help others to understand – that, when given a choice between violating “mi’dvar sheker tirchak” – denying the undeniable – and keeping “ve’ohavta le’rei’acha kamocha” – loving your fellow Jew as yourself – the latter is to be loudly proclaimed as preferable to the former.
We welcome discussion of the issues – the halachic, hashkafic, and social ones – as long as the discussion is based on the unflinching truth: the truth of life which is, ultimately, the truth of Torah.

January 7, 2010 10:30 PM